July 7, 2026
Nightmares, trauma, and the language of dreams | Leslie Ellis, PhD
📚 Read the book: A Clinician's Guide to Dream Therapy: Demystifying Dreamwork by Leslie Ellis
https://bookshop.org/a/130680/9781032806976
Browse all books by Thresholds guests:
https://bookshop.org/lists/thresholds-of-consciousness-book-list
I link to Bookshop.org rather than Amazon because purchases there support independent bookstores. I'm a Bookshop affiliate, so a small commission from your purchase also helps sustain this show, at no extra cost to you.
Dr. Leslie Ellis, author of A Clinician's Guide to Dream Therapy, on why dreams and nightmares carry more wisdom than we give them credit for, and how embodied dreamwork can help us actually work with them.
Learn more about her work: https://www.drleslieellis.com
@leslieellis" target="_blank">https://substack.com/@leslieellis
Leslie Ellis, PhD is a psychotherapist, author, and one of the leading voices in embodied dream therapy. In this conversation, we explore why dreams matter, how to work with them experientially rather than just analytically, and what happens when we bring this same approach to nightmares and trauma.
We cover:
- Why dreams give us access to a wider, more associative kind of intelligence than our waking mind
- How to actually work with a dream by re-entering and embodying its images, rather than just interpreting them
- Imagery rehearsal therapy and how "imagining a nightmare forward" can reduce their frequency and intensity
- Why trauma-related nightmares often get stuck at the worst moment, and how gentle re-engagement helps the dream (and the nervous system) move again
- Her critique of dream dictionaries and AI dream interpretation, and why context and nuance can't be automated
- Her current research into the experiencing scale, and new work on disturbed dream states like sleep paralysis and REM behavior disorder
Leslie Ellis, PhD, is the author of A Clinician's Guide to Dream Therapy (Routledge, 2nd edition, 2025), and has spent over 25 years as a clinical counsellor specializing in dreams, nightmares, and trauma. Her work sits at the intersection of neuroscience, focusing-oriented therapy, and depth psychology.
0:00 Cold Open: Dreams as Emotional Pictures
0:58 Why Work With Dreams
3:08 Dreams as Picture Metaphors (Ernest Hartmann)
5:29 The Science of Why We Dream
10:26 How Dreams Help Us Through Change
14:57 What Is Embodied Dream Work
18:01 Entering the Dream: Focusing & Gestalt Techniques
20:11 The Albino Surgeon: A Dramatic Example
23:00 What It Feels Like to Embody a Dream Figure
27:27 Working With Nightmares
34:12 Trauma, Freezing & Fragmentation
40:28 Measuring Depth of Experiencing (Gendlin's Scale)
47:13 Can AI Interpret Dreams?
50:17 Leslie's Current Book Projects
54:29 Treating Nightmares in Addiction Recovery
58:04 Why Dreams Are Always an Ally
1:00:18 Closing Thoughts
1:01:01 Next Episode: Father Francis Tiso
Thresholds of Consciousness is a production of Madrone Hollow Productions
© 2026 Scott Menasco
All rights reserved.
patreon.com/dreamworkcollective
scottmenasco.com
*The content presented on this channel is intended for educational, informational, and reflective purposes only and is not a substitute for medical, psychological, or psychiatric treatment, diagnosis, or professional advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the host*
https://bookshop.org/a/130680/9781032806976
Browse all books by Thresholds guests:
https://bookshop.org/lists/thresholds-of-consciousness-book-list
I link to Bookshop.org rather than Amazon because purchases there support independent bookstores. I'm a Bookshop affiliate, so a small commission from your purchase also helps sustain this show, at no extra cost to you.
Dr. Leslie Ellis, author of A Clinician's Guide to Dream Therapy, on why dreams and nightmares carry more wisdom than we give them credit for, and how embodied dreamwork can help us actually work with them.
Learn more about her work: https://www.drleslieellis.com
@leslieellis" target="_blank">https://substack.com/@leslieellis
Leslie Ellis, PhD is a psychotherapist, author, and one of the leading voices in embodied dream therapy. In this conversation, we explore why dreams matter, how to work with them experientially rather than just analytically, and what happens when we bring this same approach to nightmares and trauma.
We cover:
- Why dreams give us access to a wider, more associative kind of intelligence than our waking mind
- How to actually work with a dream by re-entering and embodying its images, rather than just interpreting them
- Imagery rehearsal therapy and how "imagining a nightmare forward" can reduce their frequency and intensity
- Why trauma-related nightmares often get stuck at the worst moment, and how gentle re-engagement helps the dream (and the nervous system) move again
- Her critique of dream dictionaries and AI dream interpretation, and why context and nuance can't be automated
- Her current research into the experiencing scale, and new work on disturbed dream states like sleep paralysis and REM behavior disorder
Leslie Ellis, PhD, is the author of A Clinician's Guide to Dream Therapy (Routledge, 2nd edition, 2025), and has spent over 25 years as a clinical counsellor specializing in dreams, nightmares, and trauma. Her work sits at the intersection of neuroscience, focusing-oriented therapy, and depth psychology.
0:00 Cold Open: Dreams as Emotional Pictures
0:58 Why Work With Dreams
3:08 Dreams as Picture Metaphors (Ernest Hartmann)
5:29 The Science of Why We Dream
10:26 How Dreams Help Us Through Change
14:57 What Is Embodied Dream Work
18:01 Entering the Dream: Focusing & Gestalt Techniques
20:11 The Albino Surgeon: A Dramatic Example
23:00 What It Feels Like to Embody a Dream Figure
27:27 Working With Nightmares
34:12 Trauma, Freezing & Fragmentation
40:28 Measuring Depth of Experiencing (Gendlin's Scale)
47:13 Can AI Interpret Dreams?
50:17 Leslie's Current Book Projects
54:29 Treating Nightmares in Addiction Recovery
58:04 Why Dreams Are Always an Ally
1:00:18 Closing Thoughts
1:01:01 Next Episode: Father Francis Tiso
Thresholds of Consciousness is a production of Madrone Hollow Productions
© 2026 Scott Menasco
All rights reserved.
patreon.com/dreamworkcollective
scottmenasco.com
*The content presented on this channel is intended for educational, informational, and reflective purposes only and is not a substitute for medical, psychological, or psychiatric treatment, diagnosis, or professional advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the host*